On Xagyg Arena Suggestions, Comments, and Discussions

This is primarily for my players, but since it is tabletop RPG related, why not make it public?

1. Make all perception checks passive, made when next to a secret door or trap.

2. Eliminate inventory chips and tracking. Use consensus for absurdity control (I have 100 vials of alchemists fire, etc.)

3. Require treasure equal to treasure per encounter value, medium, in order to leave the dungeon. First person out with treasure equal to this total or more, wins. (This is an improvement, because it can allow for shorter, faster games). These tables can be found here under Building a Treasure Hoard. It's 800gp for 3rd, 1150 for 4th, 1550 for 5th

4. Organize treasure cards and monsters into 'levels' of treasure "1st level" will be CR 1/4 to CR 1 encounters and have treasure valued about 200 gp, 2nd level will be CR 1 to CR 2 encounters with treasure between 300gp. 3rd level will be CR 3 to CR 4 encounters with treasure around 400 gp. (or possibly adjust these treasure values (from slow to medium to fast) for the length of the desired game?) Technically, this could make a 1st or 2nd level starting PC a viable tactic to 'win'. (since they may only need 260 gp to reach their threshold). I would not really want anyone to start higher than 3rd level unless they win.

4a. Organize rooms into Rooms and Chambers. Rooms have 1 monster and treasure, Chambers have multiple monsters and treasure 1 level higher then the level of the area the chamber is located in.

5. Instead of random wandering monsters, have on released every 2 (?) rounds, and each time one is released it becomes more and more powerful.

6. Redesign the templates so that there are more hallways with adjacent rooms to avoid the 'wandering monster runs into a door' problem we had.

7. Still no idea what the winner should win.

8. Just in case it wasn't understood, You can respec your wealth by level every time you enter the arena.

In review over the monsters, excepting the rust monster, I don't think any of them were particularly hard. The DR was 10/Cold Iron, but you could just pay double GP (say 30 gp) for a cold iron longsword, and not had any problems. Going without alchemist's fire and cold iron/silver is just dangerous. I doubt it would have been an issue if we all weren't so rushed to make characters.

Also: You *can* trip in place of a melee attack. OH IF I HAD KNOWN THERE WOULD HAVE BEEN ANOTHER MURDER. ;-p Did you know if you fail your trip by 10 or more, you are knocked prone yourself? I did not until right now.

also, naaaaameees?


  1. A Player Who Can't Work the Comment SystemMarch 6, 2011 at 8:47 PM


    Ok I agree with ur statements but the first wandering monster should not be a CR3 for 3rd lvl chars, that's just madness

    As for winner probably a magic item is best if we r going to lvl after each gaming session


    Uh, where did I say the wandering monsters should be a CR 3?

    In the beta game, we were just randomly rolling. There were lots of lower CR encounters. You know who just decided to roll a 10, a 4 and then a 12.

    I was imagining it starting off with a cr 1/4, then 1/2, then 1, then 2, then 3, etc. Perhaps one of each reached by this point? (i.e. the third time, it releases a 1/4, a 1/2, and a 1)

    The idea is that there is a clock. With teeth.

  3. :) that makes sense but since the only wondering monster we actually encountered was a CR3 and you said they increase in level each time, I suppose I mistakenly assumed that this is what we were doing last time

  4. At first I thought you were saying CR 3 encounters were mean, but then when I actually read what you wrote, I could see where you were coming from.

    So this magic item you get for winning, should it be random? have a GP value and be picked or what? Also, since we're rebuying gear with wealth by level + winnings every time we play, should it be a permanent boon?

  5. Personally think it should be permanent for as long as the character survives. Random would be ok, but if a rogue drew some plate armor it would be sad but maybe that's ok. Of course this would affect whether or not players submit found magic items toward winning. Maybe they could get gold to buy a magic item based on level, or the type of item could be random, say a piece of armor or something and they would be restricted to buying that type. Also, I think the answer to this is at least partly affected by what we do with the items that are simply found by players and not submitted toward the final score. If those players
    get to keep those items permanently then the winner's item should definitely be permanent.

  6. It just occurred to me that we could make the item random, but if the player does not want it then they could trade it for 75% of its value toward something else. Or we could make the amount of gold earned for a magic item random. If we do this then I think the player should be able to save it and add it to potential future winnings for a better item.

  7. The situation is actually even more flexible than that.

    A) The game could 'end' when the winner exits, making the reward the extra gold they can spend.

    +) The winner could have her gold doubled for gear in the next game. And anyone who escapes could have their gold.

    +) gold could apply to the next round (I think this is the better option) or a running total of the 'bonus' could be accumulated. (Which although more difficult, we should probably track for a leaderboard.

    +) The 'permanence' of magic items is dependent on the model we use for permanence. If we're respecing all gear, shouldn't we be respecing any bought items? Having winning gold tied up in a ring +1 when you need the slot, etc. Should it be like a meal exchange? Keep in mind a priority once everything is printed off is low overhead.

    I am a big fan of the randomness (due to the gambling aspect) but what could would a deck of many things do? or a prize that is primarily role-play in nature? Purchase seems like the real option.

    Just for public information - the price of the magic items for exchange, or worth of magic items found, is 1/2 the value (the crafting cost). The full cost is used for all purchases. (hence why the cloak of resistance is 500 gp, instead of 1000)

  8. Hm. Even using creation cost, and fast advancement (1200,1700,2300) average treasure values still cap around 600 gp, which esentially allows for no magic items (even after purchasing a swath of books which have low cost magic items in them).

    It is fairly important I get this correct, since I have to reprint the cards if I change the number. I'm considering flat out doubling (Quadrupling?) the fast advancement target numbers, meaning I can have magical items as treasure without it being unbalanced. i.e. at third level you must accumulate ~4800 gold, and each treasure is approxamately 1000 gold, versus 1200/300. (making first level 1600/(400), second level 3200/(800) - basically the fast table is the average treasure, and you mutiple it by 4 to get your total needed haul)

    The downside being, if we allow gold to be used outside of the game to buy things, this will give a successful third level character who levels to 4th, 10,000 gp to purchase goods, which is the wealth by level of a 5th level character. . .

    I will think about it.

  9. Ok, I'm fairly certain I'm going to go with fast advancement on that table as 1/4 the total treasure needed to win. I will make average treasure values equal to slightly less than that value (making it possible for a level appropriate character to have to face 4-5 fights)

    My current feeling is the winner gets the gold as a bonus on their next excursion, and everyone else who reaches the threshold and escapes later (even if they do it with more gold) simply gets to survive. You must hit the threshold before you can escape.

  10. The table. Numbers in parenthesis for average treasure are the actual average values, numbers without are the ones from fast advancement table. Treasure required is 4x fast advancement value.

    "Dungeon Level"-> Average Treasure value -> Average Encounter Level

    Level 1->1200(1000)-> ECL .5 CR - 1 CR
    Level 2->1700(1500)-> ECL 1 CR - 2 CR
    Level 3->2300(2500)-> ECL 3 CR - 4 CR
    Level 4->3000(3000)-> ECL 4 CR - 5 CR
    Level 5->3900(4000)-> ECL 6 CR - 7 CR
    Level 6->5000(5000)-> ECL 7 CR - 8 CR

    Level of PC -> Treasure required to exit
    1st -> 1600
    2nd -> 3200
    3rd -> 4800
    4th -> 6500
    5th -> 9200
    6th -> 12,000
    7th -> 15,600
    8th -> 20,000
    9th -> 25,600

    Anything past 9th might be outside the range of our little assignment. You need the treasure required to exit.
    Winning (first out) lets you use your gold on next respec
    Surviving (make it out) lets you level
    Any magic items found in play are permanent character additions.

    The CR of monsters is still somewhat flexible, but the treasure value I will have to stick with after I print out treasure cards, because ink is more valuable by weight than gold.


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